[6:49pm] f1yback: j/k 
[6:49pm] • f1yback fixes tats some hot coco
[6:49pm] tats: yeah that's just what i'll need!
[6:49pm] f1yback: i'm not even sure
[6:49pm] f1yback: a avr itself will operate at those temps
[6:50pm] f1yback: you know what you might want to do
[6:50pm] Jester01: f1yback:  for the record, I also saw your pastes continue after you logged back in ... twice
[6:50pm] DavidDee left the chat room. ("Leaving")
[6:50pm] tats: f1yback: are there ultracaps that can approach batteries in terms of mAh
[6:50pm] tats: ?
[6:50pm] f1yback: Jester01, then my server is lagged
[6:50pm] f1yback: cause I would have stopped as soon as I got a kick
[6:50pm] f1yback: but some people don't believe that
[6:50pm] f1yback: tats,  not even close
[6:50pm] f1yback: well some 3000F might but they are like $110 or so
[6:51pm] f1yback: tats the issue is the avr is going to be MEGA CANUCKED at those temps
[6:51pm] tats: f1yback: humpf
[6:51pm] tats: hehe
[6:51pm] tats: they go down to -40
[6:51pm] f1yback: you might have to restore to a heater circuit
[6:51pm] f1yback: or something
[6:51pm] LoRez: you rejoined and then continued to send
[6:51pm] f1yback: or locate it near a natural source of heat
[6:51pm] f1yback: LoRez, NO I DID NOT
[6:51pm] tats: f1yback: yeah! heater circuit! + a lot of isolation
[6:51pm] epoxy joined the chat room.
[6:51pm] LoRez: lag doesn't account for that.
[6:51pm] f1yback: it was all pasted at once
[6:51pm] LoRez: yes, you did.
[6:51pm] f1yback: NO I DID NOT
[6:51pm] LoRez: f1yback: that doesn't matter dumbass.
[6:51pm] f1yback: I am not that stupid
[6:51pm] f1yback: yeah it doesn't matter
[6:51pm] f1yback: because you are always right
[6:51pm] LoRez: your client rejoined and kept sending crap
[6:52pm] f1yback: even if the evidence was in your face
[6:52pm] f1yback: sheesh
[6:52pm] tats: f1yback: how could i do that? with such low voltage? filament?
[6:52pm] LoRez: yeah, get used to it.
[6:52pm] f1yback: tats I am thinking
[6:52pm] f1yback: yeah that's why lilo is spinning in his grave
[6:52pm] f1yback: I think eventually freenode will reach dalnet status
[6:52pm] f1yback: they will eventually piss someone off who just downs the entire network
[6:52pm] LoRez: go troll somewhere else
[6:52pm] f1yback: not going to be me 
[6:53pm] f1yback: tats I am thinking hang on
[6:53pm] tats: all right f1yback
[6:53pm] f1yback: anythere near it that is a source of heat
[6:53pm] f1yback: exhaust stack from building etc
[6:53pm] f1yback: actually
[6:53pm] f1yback: if you well insilate it
[6:53pm] f1yback: would it have enough internal heat to keep itself warm?
[6:54pm] f1yback: I been thinking about this stuff also
[6:54pm] f1yback: as I work on a small scale windmill gen
[6:54pm] f1yback: how to deal with the bitch known as cold
[6:54pm] f1yback: without burning up all your power either
[6:55pm] • f1yback loves challanges like this
[6:56pm] f1yback: it's the challanges like building blades figuring out how to drill holes in them center on each blade fin etc that leaves me in tears
[6:56pm] tats: maybe it would have enough internal heat to keep itself warm
[6:56pm] avrPhreaque: if you use ultracaps, you won't have a thermal issue...they work down to -60°C incompatible encoding
[6:56pm] tats: i dunno
[6:56pm] f1yback: avrPhreaque,  no
[6:56pm] f1yback: you still have to deal with the mcu itself
[6:56pm] tats: avrPhreaque: yup but what about the AVR?
[6:56pm] tats: yes
[6:56pm] f1yback: but yeah your "power source" is ok
[6:56pm] f1yback: btw
[6:56pm] f1yback: contrary to the shit they sold as engine additives for oil
[6:56pm] f1yback: and cookware
[6:56pm] avrPhreaque: qan AVR should be good to at least -25°C, and for a few pennies more, you can buy a "commercial" grade good to -40°C incompatible encoding
[6:56pm] nas joined the chat room.
[6:57pm] f1yback: teflon really does own your "canuck"............canuck!
[6:57pm] • f1yback kicks nas to prove his point
[6:57pm] f1yback: teflon coated windmill blades would resist ice
[6:57pm] nas: your pretty weird
[6:57pm] f1yback: and teflon impregnated bearings would continue to operate at those temps
[6:57pm] f1yback: yes I am
[6:57pm] f1yback: CANUCK!
[6:58pm] f1yback: the post office uses teflon impregnated plastic gears for their mail sorting machines
[6:58pm] Tom_itx: do you have data on teflon impregnated bearings?
[6:58pm] f1yback: they got rid of metal ones
[6:58pm] f1yback: no just research I did years ago
[6:58pm] f1yback: sorry
[6:58pm] Tom_itx: i think you're all wet on that one
[6:58pm] f1yback: you would think metal gears would be more durable but in some applications like mail
[6:58pm] f1yback: the paper would mix with the grease and shred the gears
[6:59pm] f1yback: so they switched to plastic and went lubeless
[6:59pm] f1yback: Tom_itx, how so?
[6:59pm] f1yback: http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=hp&q=teflon+bearings&aq=f&aqi=g7&oq=&fp=5fd42ee1c422ad25
[6:59pm] Tom_itx: i tried some teflon lube on some and it made them gum up
[6:59pm] f1yback: dude
[6:59pm] f1yback: NOT lube
[6:59pm] f1yback: I said NOT LUBE
[6:59pm] Tom_itx: i read quite well what you said
[6:59pm] f1yback: I am talking about bearing parts that come with teflon baked into the part
[7:00pm] f1yback: it's actually part of the bearing
[7:00pm] f1yback: not some coating shiut
[7:00pm] Tom_itx: teflon is rather soft
[7:00pm] f1yback: yeah but for a small scale windmill
[7:00pm] f1yback: if he's just powering a small avr etc
[7:00pm] tats: f1yback: i thought i could monitor the temperature around the AVR using a thermistor; if it drops too low, it could activate a heating element; together with a lot of isolation, that could work
[7:01pm] f1yback: Tom_itx,  I didn't mean large like house scale windmills etc
[7:01pm] avrPhreaque: tats: heating elements requitre a LOT of power
[7:01pm] LoRez: insulation, or isolation?
[7:01pm] tats: f1yback: i just don't know what i could use as a small, low-voltage heating element
[7:01pm] f1yback: I don't think teflon can bear that load
[7:01pm] tats: avrPhreaque: yeah i know...
[7:01pm] f1yback: tats windmill might be a good idea
[7:01pm] f1yback: you could make the load dump a heating coil
[7:01pm] f1yback: and just jump to another coil when it's not needed
[7:01pm] avrPhreaque: I honestly don't think you need to worry about the temperature, if it isn;'t going below -30°C incompatible encoding
[7:02pm] f1yback: see what atmel says also
[7:02pm] tats: avrPhreaque: it will go below -30
[7:02pm] tats: i guess... it i just wrap it inside a big ball of isolation material
[7:03pm] tats: maybe it could heat itself enough with its own energy
[7:03pm] f1yback: what is this thing going to do
[7:03pm] f1yback: and what's the power usage
[7:03pm] f1yback: Tom_itx, http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&q=teflon%20bearings&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi
[7:03pm] tats: f1yback: it will play some sounds during summer
[7:03pm] f1yback: how loud of sounds
[7:03pm] f1yback: what wattage etc
[7:03pm] tats: and will stop during winter since it will try to preserve its energy
[7:03pm] f1yback: ah ok
[7:04pm] f1yback: might I suggest zigbee for your rf
[7:04pm] tats: max current draw around 30mA
[7:04pm] f1yback: since it's extremely low power and has ..................
[7:04pm] f1yback is now known as carl_sagan.
[7:04pm] tats: average draw around 10mA
[7:04pm] avrPhreaque: tats:  insulation can only keep something warm if there is a source of heat INSIDE the3 insulation....it will not GENERATE heat
[7:04pm] carl_sagan: BILLIONS AND BILLIONS OF SLEEP MODES
[7:04pm] carl_sagan is now known as f1yback.
[7:04pm] tats: avrPhreaque: i know but the avr itself generates some heat, right?
[7:04pm] f1yback: tats did you see the shit TI, etc came out with the last few yrs
[7:05pm] f1yback: smps ic's that will start on 0.2 volts
[7:05pm] f1yback: I want to get some to play with
[7:05pm] f1yback: I have some old beat up solar cells from broken solar lights
[7:05pm] f1yback: just to see how well these things roll and best of all
[7:05pm] f1yback: THEY
[7:05pm] f1yback: HAVE
[7:05pm] f1yback: DIP
[7:05pm] • f1yback gets on his knees
[7:05pm] f1yback: thank you God
[7:05pm] avrPhreaque: tat:  totally negligib;e heat...in general, you can't meaure the heat rise of an operating AVR without special laboratory grade equipment
[7:05pm] tsm_ice9 joined the chat room.
[7:05pm] f1yback: ick
[7:06pm] tats: avrPhreaque: oh gosh... what about using simple component, like a diode
[7:06pm] f1yback: tats ok nmos avr it is then!
[7:06pm] • f1yback runs
[7:06pm] tats: anything that generates some heat
[7:06pm] avrPhreaque: tats: I don't think you need any additional heat
[7:06pm] f1yback: what about a pelter pad
[7:06pm] f1yback: pwm'd
[7:06pm] avrPhreaque: peltiers require power to move heat\
[7:06pm] f1yback: yes
[7:06pm] f1yback: but you could keep it at the absolutely bare min to keep the thing warm
[7:07pm] tats: avrPhreaque: i thought peltiers were for refrigeration
[7:07pm] Harold_parker: either or, one side gets hot the other cold
[7:07pm] f1yback: not if you reverse them 
[7:07pm] Harold_parker: aye
[7:07pm] Harold_parker: morning flyback, avrphreaque tom-itx
[7:07pm] f1yback: hi
[7:08pm] tats: hi Harold_parker
[7:08pm] Harold_parker: hey tats
[7:08pm] avrPhreaque: tats" peltier junctions are solid state heat pumps, the move heat, whether they heat or cool your target depoends solely on which way the current flows through them\
[7:08pm] f1yback: Tom_itx,  http://www.boulderpatchmines.com/supplies_images/ballmill_4.jpg
[7:08pm] f1yback: teflon
[7:08pm] f1yback: k thx bye
[7:08pm] tats: avrPhreaque: cool... can they work at very low power?
[7:08pm] avrPhreaque: tats:  no
[7:08pm] f1yback: avrPhreaque,  yes
[7:09pm] f1yback: but low power is low heat
[7:09pm] avrPhreaque: flyback: I have worked with peltiers...have you?
[7:09pm] f1yback: so you need to find the balance
[7:09pm] f1yback: BITE MY KNIT CAP WEARING CANUCK
[7:09pm] f1yback: ok stop being a dick
[7:09pm] f1yback: everyone is sick of it
[7:09pm] f1yback: seriously
[7:09pm] avrPhreaque: Peltiers do not GENERATE heat, they move it from one place to the other
[7:09pm] Harold_parker: hadn't seen you around for a while avrPhreaque
[7:09pm] f1yback: you didn't even let me finish
[7:09pm] f1yback: no they generate some heat as a result of operation
[7:09pm] f1yback: it's a well known fact
[7:09pm] avrPhreaque: Harold_Parker:  I am in and out....health issues
[7:09pm] Harold_parker:
[7:09pm] Harold_parker: everyone ok now?
[7:10pm] Harold_parker: *everything
[7:10pm] f1yback: which is killed many water cooling pc users
[7:10pm] Harold_parker: fuck my typing
[7:10pm] f1yback: who lost a fan
[7:10pm] avrPhreaque: but they only do so by MOVING heat
[7:10pm] f1yback: no bro the power warms up one side
[7:10pm] f1yback: which cools the other
[7:10pm] f1yback: like a gas fridge etc
[7:10pm] tats: found that one on digikey http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail&name=102-1675-ND
[7:10pm] tats: works under 2.1V
[7:10pm] • f1yback wiki's
[7:11pm] f1yback: yeah but that one is 6a max
[7:11pm] f1yback: might be overkill
[7:11pm] f1yback: that's like 12 watts
[7:11pm] f1yback: you only need 1-0.5 watt I bet if the avr is kept well insilated
[7:11pm] avrPhreaque: tats:  but did you look at hopwmuch CURRENT they need?
[7:12pm] tats: avrPhreaque: there's no minimum...
[7:12pm] avrPhreaque: there is no need to provide heat to the AVR
[7:12pm] tats: max. is 6A
[7:12pm] tats: avrPhreaque: why do you say so?
[7:12pm] avrPhreaque: tats: what is the lowest operating temperatutre you expect to see?
[7:12pm] tats: -60
[7:12pm] Harold_parker: C?
[7:12pm] tats: C
[7:12pm] Harold_parker: yikes
[7:13pm] f1yback: C?!?!?!?
[7:13pm] avrPhreaque: why -60?  At -60°C, there will be no human b e3ingds around to SEE or hear this "art" incompatible encoding
[7:13pm] f1yback: what the canuck
[7:13pm] Harold_parker: lol avrPhreaque
[7:13pm] f1yback: I doubt it's -60c
[7:13pm] f1yback: is there anywhere on earth at -60c
[7:13pm] tats: f1yback: right where i am
[7:13pm] avrPhreaque: you cvan get AVRs rated to -40°C, and that isd DAMNED cold incompatible encoding
[7:13pm] tats: in February, apparently
[7:13pm] f1yback: dude you would be dead afaik
[7:14pm] avrPhreaque: where are you, tats?
[7:14pm] tats: f1yback: people lose fingers and toes here every winter
[7:14pm] tats: avrPhreaque: i'm in Dawson City, Yukon
[7:14pm] tats: check on the map
[7:14pm] tats: i just came to make this project
[7:14pm] tats: i'll leave in 2 months
[7:14pm] tats: before it gets super cold
[7:14pm] avrPhreaque: OK>.and why would you need an art display/item to work in such temps?
[7:14pm] f1yback: uh
[7:14pm] f1yback: -76f
[7:14pm] f1yback: I doubt it
[7:14pm] f1yback: no one would live there
[7:14pm] tats: avrPhreaque: well
[7:14pm] f1yback: peroid
[7:15pm] tats: there's no _need_ for art i mean
[7:15pm] f1yback: wtf parf of hell is this
[7:15pm] tats: it's just for the fun of it I guess
[7:15pm] tats:
[7:15pm] f1yback: stupid popsiclenuck
[7:15pm] avrPhreaque: tats: point being, why do you need it to operate in such extreme temps?  There would be no one aroun d to see/hear it
[7:15pm] f1yback: avrPhreaque,
[7:15pm] f1yback: it hibernates in winter
[7:15pm] tats: f1yback: exactly!
[7:15pm] f1yback: but wants to keep it idling
[7:16pm] tats: i'm building a hibernating object
[7:16pm] tats: that's the whole concept actually
[7:16pm] tats: and that's also the challenge
[7:17pm] tats: i mean, if i wanted to do "safe" art, i would stay home and paint landscapes
[7:17pm] tats: i want to do something different
[7:17pm] tats: i think people around here especially, can relate to that... they're experiencing such extreme temperatures!
[7:18pm] f1yback: avrPhreaque,
[7:18pm] f1yback: I like it
[7:18pm] f1yback: I think it's a fun challange
[7:18pm] f1yback: he probably should study some satalites
[7:18pm] f1yback: see how they manage their heat vs power etc
[7:18pm] tats: f1yback: well, i don't think we have to look that far
[7:19pm] tats: people here are surviving with very simple devices: thermostats
[7:19pm] tats: that's a temp. sensor + a heating source
[7:19pm] f1yback: bad ide
[7:19pm] f1yback: for a low power mcu
[7:19pm] tats: + a lot of insulation
[7:20pm] tats: f1yback: the heating source does not need to be super-hot
[7:20pm] f1yback: uh
[7:20pm] f1yback: I wasn't expecting it to be
[7:20pm] f1yback: just keep the thing above frozen
[7:20pm] avrPhreaque: is -60°C the ACTUAL tenmp, or a wind choill value? incompatible encoding
[7:21pm] avrPhreaque: tats: I think you over-estimate what insulation can accoomplish for such activities
[7:21pm] LoRez: f1yback: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VdlLBWymnUA&feature=player_embedded
[7:21pm] tats: avrPhreaque: maybe you're right
[7:21pm] tats: about insulation
[7:21pm] tats: -60 might be with the wind factor
[7:22pm] tats: the lowest temperature ever recorded is −55.8 °C (−68 °F) on February 11, 1979
[7:22pm] tats: according to wikipedia
[7:22pm] • f1yback doesn't get it
[7:22pm] avrPhreaque: it works for human beingsd because we dissipate 150-200 Watts of heat, constantly, so insulationholds that heat in...a few milliWatts of heat, regardlkess of how well insulated, isnot going to be any defence against -60°C incompatible encoding
[7:22pm] tats: average low in January is -30
[7:22pm] avrPhreaque: -30 we can handle
[7:23pm] avrPhreaque: what dowes this thing do when it is not hibernating?
[7:23pm] tats: avrPhreaque: good, and if it's under the ground, it might help
[7:23pm] tats: avrPhreaque: makes sounds
[7:23pm] tats: some whistling sounds
[7:23pm] avrPhreaque: ok...
[7:23pm] f1yback: brb
[7:23pm] tats: or maybe generate some light (with leds), i'm not completely sure yet
[7:23pm] f1yback: quick trip out
[7:24pm] f1yback: get some sugar to calm my nerves
[7:24pm] _follower_ joined the chat room.
[7:24pm] avrPhreaque: if you cvan buy it below 36" deep, you shouldn't have any thermal problems at all...what asortt of an audio transducer do you plan to use? I doubt piezoelectrics treansducers will work, crystalline structures don't do well in extreme cold
[7:25pm] avrPhreaque: LEDs won't be worried about how cold it is, in general
[7:25pm] tats: avrPhreaque: good to know about leds
[7:25pm] tats: avrPhreaque: for sound: speaker + op amp
[7:25pm] avrPhreaque: you'll have a hard time weatherizing a paper cone speaker...would have to be some sort of plastic cone
[7:26pm] tats: avrPhreaque: the speaker can stay silent during winter
[7:26pm] avrPhreaque: sdo long as no condensed water gets frozen in the magnetic gap, might work
[7:26pm] tats: as long as it works again in spring time
[7:27pm] avrPhreaque: silent ye4s, but if it is exposed to the weather,m ti will be damaged, whether it is workihng or not
[7:27pm] avrPhreaque: I have to go for a while
[7:27pm] tats: avrPhreaque: thanks so much for your help
[7:27pm] avrPhreaque: no problem
[7:27pm] avrPhreaque is now known as Phreaque-AFK.